TTI Forums

I beg pardon for the questions that shall spew forth from my idiot mind. Please feel free to rend my thoughts asunder. Hopefully I'll learn something in the process.

Caprican Erock wrote:If I was a God i'd have much better things to do. Perhaps i'll create a supernova today or even throw a couple galaxies together for shits and giggles - I am a deity of course so I can do that. Toying with humans or even bothering myself with taking a peek at what theyre doing? Not so much.

Would that not be a mistake to apply human traits/perspectives to an otherwise undefinable, unprovable, entity?

reteo wrote:First, there is the frame of reference argument; our ability to measure reality is based on our senses, which have been known to be fooled. Reason can help with that over time, as a basic theory can produce testable hypotheses that can strengthen or weaken the theory. However, we are still limited to what our senses can input; as it has been mentioned, unless we can exit the universe or perceive additional dimensions, the best we can do are educated guesses based on a reasonably stable theory.

reteo wrote:Of course, this is a really roundabout way of saying "Without a new source of perception outside our existing 4-dimensional cage, or a time machine to do some observation of our own in the past, proving or disproving God would be impossible, and attempting to do either is a waste of time better served by studying things that can be understood."

The conscious experience of trichromatic vision is arbitrary. Yet it irreversibly alters how we perceive the universe around us. Only those individuals blind from birth can have a different view of the world around them. Many (most?) birds have tetrachromatic vision. Even given eons of time, our best scientific laws, our most resolute models of the universe might possibly only ever be special cases (derived solutions) of universal principles our senses and therefore our best tools cannot possibly solve/comprehend. The pursuit for a theory of everything has concluded that our best functional models of the universe are at best approximations of some underlying mathematics. The most talked about potential solutions (insert M Theory, etc.) are insofar as we are concerned totally untestable (that is, the last time I checked).

I would want to think that given enough time and ingenuity humanity will eventually "solve" the universe, if you will, but it is as much an assumption as the scientific method is (insofar as we are concerned it's bulletproof, but it's still an assumption).

It is here that I stop to ponder whether our most powerful tool, logic, might be a special case (not as fundamental as we would hope) and therefore limited in its applicability. Indeed, given the infinite universes with infinite possibilities idea, what is fundamental across universes?

reteo wrote:Of course, once again, if entropy occurs in our universe, it would have to occur in the source as well, or else the source would have imbued our universe with the same infinite source of energy.

I truly do not know, is there a mathematical/logical proof to this end? If so, then where does your later statement (found below) fit?

reteo wrote:Once again, however, quantum man may not follow the same rules, and so may be powerful enough to create matter and energy from something even more strange.

Indeed, manipulators of dark matter and dark energy, beings who can act directly on that "stuff" below the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle -- I don't think I want to meet them.

DeLuxeMaraud wrote:I would want to think that given enough time and ingenuity humanity will eventually "solve" the universe...

I’ve always wanted to think that in enough time humanity would eventually prove some of Douglas Adams theories, like mattresses growing on trees or supra intelligent mice. If we ever Hitchhiker’s to have even a degree of truth, wouldn’t that make for an interesting universe?

For some there is a god, for others there is not.
In order for a thing to exist, all things must exist. If two things don't interact with each other, then they don't exist to one another. It doesn't mean they don't exist.
What you call religion, I call science. What you call magic, I call technology. What you call god, I call the Imaginary imagination.

god is the sun, but each religion have their own depiction of "him", thats how i always saw it.....all the BS about "god made the earth in 7 days" etc etc etc...more chance of batman and the joker frolicking in a field of dasiys together and a sunny tuesday afternoon.

anyone read chapter 29 about the dinosaurs in the bible? thrilling stuff i must say

Where does logic and reason come from? Doesn't the fact that all humans have a similar code of logic have some kind of mystery to it? How do you prove what is logical? what is reason based on? something inside? Until we find some science explaining that, i will remain of the thought that we can't know for sure.

PewRocksPew wrote:Where does logic and reason come from? Doesn't the fact that all humans have a similar code of logic have some kind of mystery to it? How do you prove what is logical? what is reason based on? something inside? Until we find some science explaining that, i will remain of the thought that we can't know for sure.

Logic and reason come from an evolutionary development of the frontal lobe. That also is where we process planning, parts of speech and movement (motor cortex), emotions, and problem-solving. Animals with an inferior frontal lobe don't use logic.

I can continue further with asymmetrical involvement of frontal lobes should your question require further explanation...

Here is a very good study done should you enjoy clinical readings: http://brain.oxfordjournals.org/content ... 3.full.pdf

That which can be conceptualized exists in some manner, just as the electromagnetism of our brainwaves is measurable; anything which exists can be measured. Existence (With the inheritance of all possibilities) then, rather than what is, is what is able to be conceptualized. Therefore, in some conceivable manner, every nightmare you've ever had was real. And of all the things that don't exist, you'll never know.

I'll be more on-topic, now that my general view of universal cosmology has been explained. I'm not very intellectual, so I won't attempt to be. But I'm intelligent and honest enough to state that I cannot authoritatively give an educated opinion on this topic. God, in a generalized concept, is the being/purveyor/creative force or energy/primordial essence which is responsible for our/all universe(s). That being said, let us remember we do not understand our universe in our own right, and we hardly understand ourselves apart from the universe. So to argue the existence or non-existence of the concept of a self-aware/intelligent creative force of the universe is as futile and pointless as trying to lick one's elbow.