Is Objectivism Right for Eve Online? Yes, it is.

[RoarkRangor]

It's a game, it's a voluntary simulation with given set of rules and mechanics. No force is being initiated when data changes on the screen in front of you.

I equivicate EVE to entering a paintball course. A really big, deep, vast, and pretty paintball course.

I would agree with this. EVE is a game and while playing according to the game rules, you do not violate anyone's rights. Everyone that is playing the game has agreed to a set of rules and according to these rules pirating is allowed. We must remember that this is only simulated pirating. We call it pirating, but because nobody's rights have been infringed upon, it's not really pirating.

If it were real pirating, then if a player is threatening to shoot down your ship, you would be just when you would go to his home, break his legs in order to stop him from shooting down your ship.

All actions in EVE (as long as they are within the EVE online rules) are just. What we do in EVE is that we role-play being objectivists, because it can be fun to act in EVE as we would do in real life. So I will never dislike the person playing the character if he shoots me down. But I would dislike that character, considering only the character as the violator of rights in the fictitious EVE environment, and not the person.

Then to go back to the original question of the thread: Is objectivism right for EVE online? My answer would defiantly be yes. EVE online is an approximation of the real world in that it rewards human achievement and punishes weakness. In such a world objectivism is the right way to go. My defence of objectivism in EVE is thus only based on practical considerations, ie what would be the most useful. A defence of objectivism because it is morally good (as would be my argument in the real world) does not apply to EVE.

[Jim Degriss]

All actions in EVE (as long as they are within the EVE online rules) are just. What we do in EVE is that we role-play being objectivists, because it can be fun to act in EVE as we would do in real life. So I will never dislike the person playing the character if he shoots me down. But I would dislike that character, considering only the character as the violator of rights in the fictitious EVE environment, and not the person.

It's a game, it's a voluntary simulation with given set of rules and mechanics. No force is being initiated when data changes on the screen in front of you.

I agree that EVE is a different arena to RL. We can not take our physical bodies into EVE. The consiquences of our action's in EVE are different and more forgiving than in RL and should remain in relm of EVE. It is not proper to demand RL justice for EVE actions. EVE relates to RL as outlined in CCP's terms and conditions.

All actions in EVE are "just"?
Do have we suddenly all have blank checks to squander in the EVE universe?
Is it ok to steal just becouse you can get away with it.
Is the value of money equal to the paper it is printed on, or the just the pixals on the screen that represent it?
Can one roleplay an objectivist?

Although EVE is different to RL, it is the similar in many respects and we have many of the same choices.
As in life EVE is a realm of ideas. We bring to it our own ideologies. We know that outside a rational moral code that force becomes the standard by which we interact.
Is a force standard of interaction ever in your rational self interest?

I enjoy roleplaying in different arena's of fantasy and science fiction, to project myself into an experiance that I could never have in real life.
But the answer to the question "what would I do in this situation?" remains the same.
How could anyone respect "I" if it can be flipped around at our arbitory whim for the sake of... entertainment.
"I" is the only thing I own that cannot be taken from me by force.

Why project "someone else" into a fantasy world? This could only serve to remove yourself from the experiance, defeating the purpose.
What value would an Objectivist seek in roleplaying a subjectivist?
The idea makes me feel ill. Imagine pretending to be pretentious.

Consider,
A group of gate camping pirates holding the trade lanes to ransom, suprising and smashing to oblivion any obviously out matched traffic.

Now imagine,
through stealth and espionage a group of freedom loving capitalists discover whereabouts of these scoundrals.
By gathering the volitional support of all those who value trade we fall apon them like great gavel with a $ shaped head.

These ideas of the mind are examples of use of force and justice. They are the same ideas in EVE or RL.

Ask yourself, regardless of the outcome.
Which side would "I" be fighting for?
And why?

I am conviced those that act irrationally in EVE also do so in RL. The reverse is also true because in either case, they are demonstrating a set of values of the mind.

I see the value of reason in any interaction with other rational minds regardless of the arena and make value judgment on any mind (not just the character) that does not.

[Morgen Geboren]

Very interesting discussion,

A number of folks have touched on the point and I just want to re-iterate it in my own words as it applies to why I play Eve.

I play it for my own enjoyment. I suppose that folks who pirate even when they get little to nothing out of it, are enjoying themselves else they wouldn't do it. And while that not might be a great way to make a living in RL (unless you do it properly and turn a tidy profit), again it's a game world and their goal might not be to increase their material holdings but to inflict pain on others "characters" (nice breakdown between people and characters RoarkRanger).

I personally lack the determination and fortitude to become a production based tycoon in Eve, I am just lazy about it. In RL I can spend hours writing a scientific report, creating/running experiments, cooking, and building model ships. I just do not have the drive to do so in the game world.

Instead I find great personal joy, in the game world, with building communities and teamwork. I apply my hard work and dedication to create things, or accomplish goals that require the coordinated minds and efforts of a group. That successful cooperative team experience, set on a science fiction stage (I loved the eve paintball reference btw Zarkary) is the "product" I earn from the time I spend here. It is my goal and I love it.

It may be that others feel the same way about pirating; I may not understand it but I respect their choice, I accept that I may fall victim to it (their pirating), and I do my best to protect my ship and my allies from such actions.

Yes I think you can live for yourself in Eve, even if the actions in your game differ somewhat from your actions in RL.

[Tark en Chalune]

Ultimately, EVE Online is a Roleplaying game.

I enjoy playing someone who does not murder or steal from others for sport, and will act to prevent such folks from aggressing.

Shooting up a player who RPs a thief or pirate is fun for me.