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Kushan wrote:They weren't willing to sacrifice their comfort enough to complete high school. They weren't willing to pursue a higher degree, or at least go to a vocational school. Or actually look for a better job, and vote with their feet if they feel their skills are worth more in a free market.

It has never ceased to amaze me how those on the bottom of the job ladder ceaselessly complain about their jobs, yet they stick with the same company year after year. If they hate it so much, you'd think it would be incentive enough to try to improve their lot in life.

You make it sound like they all have a choice. In many cases people are too busy making a living to actually find the time to improve their lives.

Work, raising children can sometimes occupy their lives almost 100% and there is little opportunity for them to advance.

I agree, in many cases it is people who could improve their lot but chose not to (I have a daughter like this, but even she has a somewhat valid excuse) but in other cases there is no choice.

edited out unnecessary snarky comment

Kushan wrote:They weren't willing to sacrifice their comfort enough to complete high school. They weren't willing to pursue a higher degree, or at least go to a vocational school. Or actually look for a better job, and vote with their feet if they feel their skills are worth more in a free market.

Once my side stopped hurting from the laughing jag, this is exactly where I brought the conversation. And I agree, most of the root causes of poverty are not insurmountable. By and far poverty is a situation that can be overcome, unless we are dealing with a physical or mental limitation.

To frame it a little better I asked him where this strike would occur. He used the high unemployment areas of the rust belt, places like flint Michigan. And his group of “strikers” did include the working poor and jobless. I brought up all of the points Kushan presented. Plus the impossibility of an unemployed person striking, and the extreme hardship a strike would cause a working poor person. I pointed out that the strike could possibly create more hardship than a process of relocation & self improvement. He wasn’t buying.

BTW definitely NOT my friend. Personally I don’t think a vampire like this is capable of friendship. I try to keep this sort in my wake. Just a matter of time before a guy like that tries to pick your pocket.

Torrstar wrote:You make it sound like they all have a choice. In many cases people are too busy making a living to actually find the time to improve their lives.

Work, raising children can sometimes occupy their lives almost 100% and there is little opportunity for them to advance.

I agree, in many cases it is people who could improve their lot but chose not to (I have a daughter like this, but even she has a somewhat valid excuse) but in other cases there is no choice.

edited out unnecessary snarky comment

It is a persons choice or a series of bad choices on their part that lead them to the situation they are in. Excuses on their part or pardons from society do not improve the status of a person. There is ample opportunity for people who are ambitious. Night school, online classes or even taking one class a semester. Goals will take longer to reach but it's not unattainable. Using children (which btw was a persons choice to have) as scapegoats for a persons laziness is abhorrent. Forcing society to pay monetarily or by guilt because someone was a complete idiot is ethically (thus logically) erroneous. The laziness of most "poor" people isn't defined solely on their willingness to preform manual labor, it is their unwillingness to use their mind.

As far as your daughters "somewhat valid excuse", no one wants to believe that their loved one's are complete douches. Think about her "excuse" and whether you would accept that explanation from any other person that you were not emotionally connected to. (Barring severe mental/physical disability).

There are always choices, special pleading and emotional appeals should not go unchecked. Bad things happen to all of us, get over it.

Whoops, we screwed up guys and really took this thread way off topic. While this is a great topic, let's shelve it so people who want to discuss the OP can get it back on the tracks.