TTI Forums

Hey there,

I'm a 23 year old student from Canada, studying History and Psychology at the Undergraduate level. My long-term career goals are in the military, hopefully as an Officer with an Armoured Reconnaissance Unit. I'm applying this summer with a local reserve unit as an officer candidate, so I hope all goes well.

I've been playing EVE for quite some time, and have a 13mil SP character who can fly Battleships (T2 Fit), Logistics, Recon, Covert Ops, Retriever and all T2 frigs except the interceptor. I've been around, have done a tour in 0.0 and spent six months in WH space. I was previously a member of Taggart on another toon in 2007 (Amarantus Cerularius) but deleted him after I discovered that I did his skills wrong. (That was before the remap). This toon is classed as an engineer, and is therefore skilled at mining and manufacturing, but I have skilled him into combat professions making him a 'jack of all trades' but certainly, master of none.

I was a member in a collectivist carebear corporation 'Federal Armaments' and their alliance 'Coalition of Free Stars' for awhile, but took leave of their ranks after they consistently failed to demonstrate even the slightest concern for their or anyone else's individual rights. Our wormhole POS's had enforced rules on collective free-access to all equipment and we were required to submit our possessions we wished to bring into WH space to a 'logistician' who controlled access to equipment and assets. The corporation repeatedly ignored my warnings that the system was bound to fail until petty thefts began occurring from the POS hangars.

Repeated entreaties by myself and a few others to have security reviewed and end equipment sharing outright, were ignored or denied. Additionally, the corporation was completely unable to provide the very basics of material security, while exacting usurious taxation on the membership.

My girlfriend (who plays with me) and I hatched a plan to teach them a lesson and, despite being trusted members for over 9 months initiated an uprising from within, repossessing our goods from the corporate hangars, dumping their vessels out in space, destroying several, and taking a good deal of the stockpiled minerals and valuable gear.

The intent behind the theft was not personal profit, the 'score' was pitifully small, but rather to underscore the weakness that the corporation had fostered in its own culture and our resentment toward its policies. It was a sort of intergalactic 'boston tea party'. We were subsequently hunted, but defended ourselves accordingly.

Then I went to 0.0 with Doom Faction where I supplied both sides in a very brutal war, until corporate logistics realized that goods I was shipping down were being sold on the open market and refused to transport anything more. That particular venture was expensive, to say the least and now I'm left with little more than my trusty mission Dominix 'The Henry Kissinger' a salvage destroyer, a retriever and a hauler. So, I'm looking to get back into the swing of things after a rather lengthy hiatus and begin playing seriously, with profit and advancement in mind.

Thanks for reading,
M.C.

Oh, I make EVE videos as well. These are some promotional videos from the corporation/alliance we quit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjteEFFIzFM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jww6_wyym4c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgT1k4yOl_0

Welcome to the forums. sounds like your eve life has been a roller coaster.

Thank you for the welcome.

I wouldn't call it a roller coaster, but as somebody who can never just 'hold a day job'... I'll say that I pride myself on living 'interesting times' as the old curse goes.

Michael Cerularius wrote:My girlfriend (who plays with me) and I hatched a plan to teach them a lesson and, despite being trusted members for over 9 months initiated an uprising from within, repossessing our goods from the corporate hangars, dumping their vessels out in space, destroying several, and taking a good deal of the stockpiled minerals and valuable gear.

The intent behind the theft was not personal profit, the 'score' was pitifully small, but rather to underscore the weakness that the corporation had fostered in its own culture and our resentment toward its policies.

So do you think that two wrongs make a right? I understand being tricked into joining a Commie Corp was a bad deal, but you decided to do it and no one coerced you into it. You could have just left.

So which is it? Are you a weak minded submissive? Are you a thief? Do you really want to be either of those things?

Well two wrongs don't necessarily make a right, but doing something with the intention of teaching a solid lesson wasn't exactly a wrong. We made up our minds that the corporation was not for us and determined that it was time to leave. Extenuating circumstances made it 'fitting' for us to leave rather noisily and 'dramatically', demonstrating that in fact everything that had been said, was true. Also, we were founding members in the corporation which had a membership of 9 when we joined. It was more of a withdrawal of confidence than an outright heist. The communist ethic slipped in under a particular CEO and was not the founding ethic, which was to have fun. 'For the greater good' became the mantra, and thus we extricated ourselves tactfully, withdrawing with enough profit to justify our principal investment (not really, actually). Basically, the interest accrued made it seem unlikely our initial investment was ever going to be meaningfully returned.

Michael Cerularius wrote: We made up our minds that the corporation was not for us and determined that it was time to leave.

Yes clearly you made these decisions, and there is not a thing wrong with either. But by your own revelations, you decided and did much more. The title of Ayn Rand’s novel was not Atlas Smash & Grab. In this time of injustice you decided to promulgate more injustice, rather than simply Shrug. Eve is sort of a microcosm this way. It gives us all chance to sort things out, and ultimately find better ways to live.

Maybe this situation will be a character building experience for you. But in the mean time, do you suggest the members of TTI take up company with an avowed corp thief?

Michael Cerularius wrote: Basically, the interest accrued made it seem unlikely our initial investment was ever going to be meaningfully returned.

That is one of the many problems with comingling funds for the common good. You've told us of no contract defining the terms of your investment or for repayment. Without the contract, essentially your funds were committed to the collective good to moment you transferred them. I know that sounds harsh, but there is another great learning experience in that.

Let's try to learn from this experience... Can you think of any other problems that could arise from comingling funds for the common good?

musashi wrote:

Michael Cerularius wrote: We made up our minds that the corporation was not for us and determined that it was time to leave.

Yes clearly you made these decisions, and there is not a thing wrong with either. But by your own revelations, you decided and did much more. The title of Ayn Rand’s novel was not Atlas Smash & Grab. In this time of injustice you decided to promulgate more injustice, rather than simply Shrug. Eve is sort of a microcosm this way. It gives us all chance to sort things out, and ultimately find better ways to live.

While it's not 'Atlas Smash and Grab,' I do believe there is a character in the story who purposefully and willfully employs violence for the purposes of appropriating the material possessions of the looters and returning them to their rightful owners, from whom they have been taken by force. Quitting a corporation which owes you nine months of service is all well and good, but I felt it necessary to extract from them appropriate compensation when it became evident that suggested reforms and practices were going to be thoroughly ignored. We tried to use our influence and abilities to shape a better more productive society, but barring that we left, sabotaging their business interests in WH space irreparably and returning to ourselves less than 1/100th of that which was taken.

I'm not an unrefined petty-criminal in EVE, quite to the contrary, my character holds himself to a higher code of ethics. If somebody surrenders their property willingly to collective interest, then any individual who wishes to do so can claim that property as his own, since it has been made available as you say, without contract. The contract between myself and the corporation was verbal as well, but my contributions were based on the assumption that self-sufficiency in the member-base and in corporate industry would be returned by increased profit opportunities and of course, by movement toward more profitable means in low-security or 0.0 space.

musashi wrote: Maybe this situation will be a character building experience for you. But in the mean time, do you suggest the members of TTI take up company with an avowed corp thief?

I don't take private property. Simple as that. And I would not have been transparent if it were going to be an issue or if I felt that the actions were anything -but- in accordance with good objective values. I admit you make some compelling arguments that make me consider closely my character's justification. In my mind and in my girlfriend's mind it seemed like the natural, correct and 'virtuous' thing to do.

We discussed various scenarios whereby we could exact satisfaction from the collective and determined that financial compensation for our losses would not only serve that purpose, but underscore the need for personal property and objective values in the corporation. Unfortunately they just became so shocked and paranoid that the whole collective fell apart when selfishness surfaced in their midst.

musashi wrote:

Michael Cerularius wrote: Basically, the interest accrued made it seem unlikely our initial investment was ever going to be meaningfully returned.

That is one of the many problems with comingling funds for the common good. You've told us of no contract defining the terms of your investment or for repayment. Without the contract, essentially your funds were committed to the collective good to moment you transferred them. I know that sounds harsh, but there is another great learning experience in that.

The contract was implicit that the corporation would succeed and prosper, and that the individuals that supported it in foundation would be elevated and profit from their initial investment. This was not the case and repeated entreaties to move toward more profitable ambitions (such as the production of anything) were met by continued rebuttals that the corporation members were not ready to sustain themselves and needed more time and investment from the community members. This began at about six months and was a continuous progression of small changes which saw the collectivization of assets and the commencement of unrest and mistrust.

musashi wrote: Let's try to learn from this experience... Can you think of any other problems that could arise from comingling funds for the common good?

Well yes actually, removing the responsibility for acquiring ones own material possessions results in an attitude of laziness and entitlement. People stagnate and do not feel as though they are required to work or produce meaningfully in order to meet their needs. This places the burden of production on those who are 'capable' and obligates them to continue their contributions, enforcing a scenario which I would describe as the 'few supporting the many.' Since they are unwilling to provide for themselves, that which they hold is not really theirs by right and therefore can become the property of anybody who possesses the strength or ability to lay claim to it objectively.

I think the action to kill off a commie corp is just fine. More commie deaths and suffering is always good, especially if some commie did change the corp from being semi-neutral to individualism to out-right commie life.

Props for ending the commie corp. \o/

I'm trying to understand the motivation for sharing this information in a public introduction. I mean, sure, we might have found out, so best to be honest and truthful, (because I'm guessing your former corpmates consider you to be scoundrels) but perhaps this is something best shared in private, or with an officer.

We're all different, I found myself on one occasion contributing a large portion of my income (20% taxes, 50M/month fees/ore processing fees) and self funding of my ship losses, weeks away POS busting against BOB only to see the greatest reward for our efforts, a Mothership (traded for a base we captured) given to a single corporate officer (rather than sell it and split among the members) in the name of the greater good.

Was I pissed. Yeah, I was. But my response was different. I just took my toys and went back to empire.

Torrstar wrote:I'm trying to understand the motivation for sharing this information in a public introduction. I mean, sure, we might have found out, so best to be honest and truthful, (because I'm guessing your former corpmates consider you to be scoundrels) but perhaps this is something best shared in private, or with an officer.

Well, as I stated, transparency is key... but honestly it's a bit of biographical information that makes my character a little more diverse. As to whether the corporation considers us 'scoundrels'... by all means, they probably did... but all of those whom were involved have since split from the corporation and gone their separate ways with Mercenary or Pirate factions. The CEO remains but it is my impression that he is either marooned in WH space or inactive. I'd consider the incident to be more of a mutiny than a heist. And besides, I take a special sort of pride in ripping off collectivized property, we did take everything that wasn't nailed down but by their own assertions, it didn't belong to anybody.

Torrstar wrote: We're all different, I found myself on one occasion contributing a large portion of my income (20% taxes, 50M/month fees/ore processing fees) and self funding of my ship losses, weeks away POS busting against BOB only to see the greatest reward for our efforts, a Mothership (traded for a base we captured) given to a single corporate officer (rather than sell it and split among the members) in the name of the greater good.

Was I pissed. Yeah, I was. But my response was different. I just took my toys and went back to empire.

Wait... I'm assuming you've had a change of heart since then. Awarding the ship to one member (especially an officer) was evidently representative of his individual merit then, and while I understand that you might feel hard done by, theft in that scenario would have been an act of looting (indignantly on behalf of a disenfranchised collective). Looks as though you shrugged and found objective ethics. I took back what was rightfully mine and had been provided through individual effort. Corporate property given to individuals or individual property taken by individuals is different from individual property taken by corporations. If you're at war with a collective though (ideological or formally declared), their property is forfeit and up for grabs as far as I'm concerned.