TTI Forums

This thread is a response to some concerns voiced over the recent ban of a member who challenged the TTI policy of NBSI in Wspace and Kspace with similar ROE.

It was put forth that this policy allowed the initiation of force by TTI members and was thus hypocritical to Objectivism.

This would be correct if EVE was a graphical representation of events taking place in reality, but it is not. The events taking place in EVE are only representative of the game world, a world in which players must agree to be subject to its mechanics, rules and spirit upon logging in (EULA).

One cannot cry foul when two people agree to play a game together and one beats the other by a means allowed in the game mechanics. This is the purpose of the game. This is not an initiation of force, initiations of force can only occur when one person does not consent to the physical acts brought upon them. When you log into EVE you agree to acts similar to consenting to receive a paintball to the face when you walk onto a paint course. The other person is not immoral, they are not initiating force. You agreed to let them have a chance and they took it.

To clarify further: there is a chance someone will break into my house and steal my stuff tonight. I do not agree to this nor did I sign any contract agreeing to it being alright. Thus the burglars actions are an initiation of force and immoral (let alone this would be a real-world occurrence and not virtual). Not the case with EVE online, you paid and clicked "I agree," now deal with it. There is nothing immoral or hypocritical about agreeing to the mechanics of a game and then operating within those mechanics with thousands of others doing the same.

Thus I claim that actions taken within the CCP allowed mechanics of EVE online are morally neutral. Now go back to having fun!

Feedback?

PS It was also put forth that EVE is its own reality and must be dealt with thusly. I think this is false and a denial of objective reality. EVE has an imaginary "reality" or "universe" that is the mold for its game mechanics. It is not separate from absolute objective reality, it has a specific nature and identity within our reality, which I fleshed out above.

TL;DR The EVE universe is not a physical reality and initiations of force cannot occur inside of the rules. You agree to those rules and actions taken within them are morally neutral.

I've grown to dislike the debates of morality in eve. In general it's always brought up by some clueless one month old player that thinks it is dishonoUrable to do anything but take 10 steps, turn, and fire. You can't have a 1:1 conversion of RL ethics to video game ethics, "playing the terrorist team in counterstrike is morally wrong, and so is taking pieces while playing checkers as it is an initiation of force"

Putting that aside,

The member was kicked for being an insufferable douchebag. In all my time with the ability to kick people, this is the only time I've done it. Judging by the conversation, he was going to ragequit anyway after crapping up corp chat for a few more hours. I got tired of seeing him in corp chat, so that was that.

fail post

"You can't have a 1:1 conversion of RL ethics to video game ethics"

Exactly. The morality of video game actions cannot be divorced from reality, there is no conversion because there is no difference in measurement. The difference is in the context of the situation, the details of the medium and nature of the interaction. You don't convert one to another, you study both with the same set of principles; is it good for man's life? Perhaps it is.

Thank you for playing, have a nice day (somewhere else)...

On a related note, can I have his stuffs, or did he donate it to the children?

Zarkary wrote:Thus I claim that actions taken within the CCP allowed mechanics of EVE online are morally neutral. Now go back to having fun!

Kind of. You have to be careful on two points here.

1) "Having fun" has strict requirements. For example, you can't just act randomly and somehow expect yourself to have fun in Eve, or any other game. Even though Eve is a game, it is an action that we take in reality, thus principles still apply. Or in other words, "having fun" has objective requirements.

2) One conclusion follows from (1). You could follow and accept whatever mechanics you want and still commit an immoral action. For example, if you are playing Eve because you hate producers in RL, and Eve allows you to feel like you punish producers (by pirating) and that makes you feel all tingly, then you would be immoral regardless if you followed Eve mechanics or not. This is the primary reason why TTI discriminates against and kicks many applicants.