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The first thing you have to recognize is that you are probably arguing with someone who places more value on utilitarian outcomes than on the infringement of rights. This is a major obstacle because utilitarians are more than willing to trample rights in order to prevent bad outcomes or the possibil...

What was the name of that game on the cassette? I remember having "Pyramid" on cassette.

Sweet. Thanks.

How's everyone doing? It looks like there have been some new adventures since I was last around. I'm back to playing eve now after moving into the new house. I was wondering if I could get access to the forums again. I only have access to the public sections right now. Thanks

Now, here's where the wrench gets thrown into the works. When someone chooses a life of piracy, regardless of whether someone does so in or out of game, they've chosen to ignore all mainstream codes of morals AND ethics and adopt a new set...(i.e. Pirate's Code, Honor Among Thieves...call it what y...

I'm disapointed. I thought this thread would be far more entertaining by now.

A lot of the criticism is based on the book being melodrama and stuffy literary types think melodrama is just for pulp novels. Also, many think the characters are caricatures and not realistic (so what it is about making a point). Although sometimes I feel that politicians are trying really hard to ...

I agree with a lot of what you wrote there Musashi. I don't think that a taxonomic designation would present a value judgment. So the Menudo example wouldn't be falling under the classification of "good" music, but more western pop music. This doesn't indicate whether it will be good or ba...

I'm disengaging. I'm going back to talking about art.

I'm disengaging. I am going back to talking about art.

Ok since I am sorta bummed that we stopped talking about art, let's talk about art. On of the things I find interesting about "art" as a sort of taxonomic designation is that you find yourself surrounded by art. Sure most of it isn't that great but even in the bad examples there is an inhe...

Actually, Rand is an authority on Objectivism as you pointed out but not art. Also, I indicted any expertise that might be claimed as self-indulgent because the arguments are self aggrandizing and therefore necessitating skepticism. *edit* Which would fall under the fourth point concerning bias in t...

Now for the line by line response in green. You still haven't made an argument; you have made appeals to authority. This is a curious but commonly used logical fallacy. I may branch this off to a separate thread but for now I want to point out the actual meaning underneath that statement for the sa...

:sigh: Well since Olek decided to split the thread and paint me as a troll I guess I will respond. Wow, appealing to authority is a logical fallacy and you are claiming that pointing this out is a logical fallacy. You could have been civil and made an argument like, "Rand says X and I think tha...

I wasn't belittling you for believing Rand although I did belittle Rand's art theory as being self-indulgent. I answered your specific criticisms and then pointed out that you were using Rand as a cudgel instead of actually making an argument. You still haven't made an argument; you have made appeal...

What happened to my last post responding to Olek? Server squirrels?

Oh noes he dissed Rand!!!11! Apostasy!!!111! C'mon Olek give me a break. A writer (writers are artists) describes what she thinks her art is and then proclaims it to have this magnificent world transforming power and that isn't obviously self-indulgent? Sure art has occasionally generated a powerful...

Also, I think it is a typical representation of the self indulgent drivel many artists write concerning the importance of art.

yeah, I don't see any objective criteria there.

[Moderator note: I have split this thread from the discussion on art, in order to show a particular kind of logical fallacy. First few posts here set the stage and the context. I have decided to keep them as such, since merging them together in a single quote post is too much work. -Oleksandr- ] I'...

Why should I accept that art is subjective? Oh, I thought you were asking, "Why should I accept some other person's subjective opinion?" The answer to which is, "Don't. Make your own opinion." This question actually is a new one for me. You should feel proud. I have been having ...

It's no longer art to you but it is probably still art to the artist or the guy who paid for it. To you it might now simply be a lump of bronze. Therein lies the rub of subjectivity. I told you the generic term is pretty useless right? Actually, any attempt to classify subjective qualities is pretty...

"Art" as a generic term is fairly useless. Think of it more in terms of a taxonomic kingdom designation. "Animal" is not very useful either except to differentiate from "plant". I like to reference the antiquities section of a museum. What do they have presented as art ...

I think that'll do. Eve is a big place.

It is based on the completely subjective reaction of the viewer. The determination of what is and isn't art is subjective because it is based on an individual's reaction. This is probably why there are so many arguments about what should be considered art. However the criteria is objective. If it el...