How can there be a Heavan

[Shazam0]

i'm not as concerned with who is correct. Its not a matter of the bible being the word of god as much as the very existance of god himself. I used the bible because i assumed we were talking of christians( and thier faith in heaven) i being one myself.

[Sansake^]

First, let me say that I misspoke in an earlier post. I did not mean to say that laws were based on fear but rather, somewhat empowered by them. Based on reaction, it seems you all took my meaning but I wanted to make it clear anyway.

[quote=”Shazam0”]…. or in other words I dont lie...Ok i have lied and the person i lied to always finds out, so i've learned it does no good. But i dont lie not because i'm afraid of being damned.[/quote]

Apparently you don’t lie because you’re afraid of getting caught. You lie, you get caught, and in the end that does you more personal harm than telling the truth in the first place would have. Hence, you are afraid to lie.

[quote=”Masashi”]* I stand corrected, it is Muhammad in my previous statement. Muhammad is the prophet of Allah. Or was Ishmael the prophet? The names confuse me sometimes, that's why I use Jimmy Buffet. I like his tunes best.[/quote]

I am beginning to wonder if your propensity for missing the forest for the sound byte isn’t intentional. The point is not the name of Allah’s prophet of course. As an example of your contention that all religions are different and each believes itself to be the only true religion and all others damned, you bring up “Islam’s” one true prophet of God. As a counter, I point out that not even the Muslim believes that God had one true prophet only that there is but one God. Yours was not a simple error of semantics, you’ve changed the whole religion to suit your point. I will concede that your error does not invalidate that point however. Yes, the polytheistic religions are wrong. (I would include Christianity here but my Muslim brethren say, “no”.)

[quote=”Masashi”]….However, I believe they all begin loose validity as they broach subjects beyond the understanding of men, subjects like what happens after I die? [/quote]

I agree with you but only when they fall into the carefully crafted traps of folks like yourself. This is why the wiser among them will answer with things like, “It is beyond the understanding of men” and believe it to be true. With faith in that answer, they are unfettered by the indignation of those who want a something clearer. They are left to pity those folks perhaps adding something like, “God is like guns, Harleys, and flying; either you get it or you don’t” but no more.

[quote=”Masashi”]Can God make a rock so big that he can't lift it? Who can really answer this question authoritatively?[/quote]

God can but it’s not a question I intend to ask him.

[quote=”Masashi”]What's so funny about peace, love and understanding (name that artist)[/quote]

Elvis Costello

[quote=”Masashi”]

• - Now of course, Sansake will post and say that only the Qur'an is the word of God.[/quote]
  
  No, he won’t. No good Muslim would.
  
  
  [quote=”Raaz Satik"]If the bible is mans record of God's teachings, why is so much of the symbolism of the christian church based on the symbolism of prior religions?[/quote]
  
  Precisely because it is man’s record of God’s teachings. God has not changed, nor has his laws for man. But man’s perceptions and interpretations of those laws tend to change at his convenience. so, every now and again, God sends a prophet down to Earth in an attempt to straighten folks out and put them back onto the path. The real question then, is not why is so much of it the same but rather, why is there so much disparity.

[Raaz Satik]

If the bible is mans record of God's teachings, why is so much of the symbolism of the christian church based on the symbolism of prior religions?

Precisely because it is man’s record of God’s teachings. God has not changed, nor has his laws for man. But man’s perceptions and interpretations of those laws tend to change at his convenience. so, every now and again, God sends a prophet down to Earth in an attempt to straighten folks out and put them back onto the path. The real question then, is not why is so much of it the same but rather, why is there so much disparity.

So you believe that the difference between God, Budha, Allah etal is mostly semantics? Does this also extend to the Pagan, Norse, Egyption pantheons as well?

When I die, I will eat lamb in paradise surrounded by (I believe the correct number is 74) virgins whether I am still unmarried at that point or not. You see, in Islam, we are allowed as many wives and concubines as we can afford and we are all rich in Heaven.

This impies that Islam does not treat women as mans equal. I'm curious about this what reasons/belief are behind this.

[redick]

Redick, you say ‘An individuals admittance into Heaven is then dependant up his relationship with God, which should be reflected in his relationship with his wife’. I can understand that… but it must be hard to find a woman that would be willing to be second best in your heart?

I've been married 14 years now to just such a woman! It has to do with finding a woman who follows the same belief. I would not want a woman so selfish as to put *me* before God, nor one that would expect I would put *her* before God.

[musashi]

This is why the wiser among them will answer with things like, “It is beyond the understanding of men” and believe it to be true. With faith in that answer, they are unfettered by the indignation of those who want a something clearer. They are left to pity those folks perhaps adding something like, “God is like guns, Harleys, and flying; either you get it or you don’t” but no more.

To me this reads like an elephant tether... In places where they enslave elephants for work. They always use the strongest chains and the sturdiest anchor on the baby elephants. Eventually the elephant becomes indoctrinated to the perception that the chain is unbreakable and the anchor unmovable. They use a simple rope and wooden stake to hold the mature elephants captive.

I wonder if the enslaved elephants pity the wild elephants for not "getting" the wisdom and stability of the work camp. After all, these unbreakable chains and bindings are beyond the comprehension of elephants. Or maybe the enslaved elephant's faith in the chain, is really just a fear of the unknown freedom beyond captivity?

If you put a mature wild elephant in the work camp, I am sure they would miss the things that wild elephants do. And run away if the opportunity presented itself. You might have to leave the chain on that wild elephant for the rest of its life. Heck this is an elephant we are talking about, maybe a chain isn't going to get it done. But again maybe that is just because the wild elephants don't get the beauty and tranquilly of enslavement.

By the way "What's so funny about peace, love and understanding" is included in the re-release of Elvis's Armed Forces album. And the Armed Forces cover art depicts a stampede of wild elephants. Coincidence? I think not...