The Green Energy Fantasy: Green energy policies would hobble

[Riprion]

Wow, the tone of this thread just went south really fast.

Petyr, I think that is a little harsh. I thought we were having an interesting debate.

On a side note, I am a registered Libertarian.

[Petyr Baelich]

Wow, the tone of this thread just went south really fast.

Petyr, I think that is a little harsh. I thought we were having an interesting debate.

On a side note, I am a registered Libertarian.

I'm not getting into a discussion of internal corp issues on a public forum. Continue to have your debate if you think it's worthwhile. I agree with all the points you've brought up and I think your arguments were excellent. Any rational person would have admitted their validity by now.

[musashi]

I agree with all the points you've(Riprion) brought up and I think your arguments were excellent. Any rational person would have admitted their validity by now.

[Musashi suitably cowed in a re-programmed tone….] “Baaaa Baaa… Freee Marketttt” … my deliverance… my unquestioned truth…

It is not a rational mind that should have accepted the positions, acceptance would be for an unquestioning mind. I could have just as easily parroted these opposing opinions myself. Some folks just can’t appreciate a good joke or good sophistry any more. And clearly our King suffers nor needs any jester.

[Riprion]

Riprion pulls down his pants and runs around the room letting his Libertarian flag fly

[Emedan]

Riprion pulls down his pants and runs around the room letting his Libertarian flag fly

Please don't make me start a talk on anarchy vs anomy.

[Petyr Baelich]

Rip, in my experience Libertarians run the gamut from anarchism to fiscal conservatism. Unfortunately the majority of the party is towards the anarchist side, or at least believes that we should privatize all government including police, courts, and military. I think that is a very bad idea and would be an even worse expression of the corporatism we now have.

[Riprion]

I actually think that has been changing pretty quickly in the last 8 years or so. Sure there are some vocal Libertarians that are hardcore Rothbardians but as it becomes more mainstream it has moved to a more simple "Don't tread on me, I won't tread on you" mentality. I know some Libertarians that even voted for Obama hoping for increased civil liberties, no anarcho-capitalist would do that.

I think as you see Libertarianism siphon more moderates from both parties, the noisy radical minority will begin to be drowned out. There have even been some successful "mutinies" within the party trying to make the message more palatable to a wider audience.

On the other hand, I don't think it is all that bad to read Rothbard as mental excercise in order to consider alternative to the default statist solutions to problems.

[Emedan]

Rip, in my experience Libertarians run the gamut from anarchism to fiscal conservatism. Unfortunately the majority of the party is towards the anarchist side, or at least believes that we should privatize all government including police, courts, and military. I think that is a very bad idea and would be an even worse expression of the corporatism we now have.

I think we should privatize all government including police, courts, and military

[Oleksandr]

It is sad to see a decent mind go down into a hell hole of green mysticism.

[musashi]

It is sad to see a decent mind go down into a hell hole of green mysticism.

I didn’t go completely soft in the head – I still shower regularly and use those plastic bags at the grocery store.

Robert Owen and Thomas More’s Utopia are really at fault here. I want to create an Objectivist Utopia. The road map to a Utopia starts in the minds of the framers before it manifests into reality. Unfortunately a few folks consider contrary opinions and questions about gray issues more corrosive than battery acid.

At face value, I understand the need for placidity. Generally people don’t like to open the hood and tinker with the inner workings of daily life. Given that I’d like to extend the philosophy my questions just bring more granularity than people want to cope with. And since I generally have to take the devil’s advocate position in these conversations (to get a better understanding of what other Objectivist’s think about these issues), it must be confusing to some readers.

[musashi]

This bit of news is probably the anticlimax of the whole thread. If Saudi Arabia is saying we are nearing the point where we won’t need oil, well that must close the debate… Like most politics don’t believe anything you hear and only half of what you see.

According to Old Saud the problem is not “peak oil supply” but rather “peak oil demand”. I guess they must also be forecasting negative population growth too. Some interesting points in this article… Saudi Arabia zealously guards the estimates of its oil reserves. This article states the reserve at 264 BB at the current depressed stated production of 8 MB/day, Saudi Arabia runs out of oil in around 2,700 years. I doubt this is any type of official estimate, but it gives me pause for thought.

The article goes on to describe that the Saudi’s are moving towards hot CO2 injection (a technique used to extend oil wells at the end of their functional life). Of course this would not be light sweet crude, more likely a higher MW grade petroleum - probably still better than Venezuelan oil.

SAUDI ARABIA PREPARING FOR OIL DEMAND TO PEAK

JEDDAH, Saudi Arabia – A top Saudi energy official expressed serious concern Monday that world oil demand could peak in the next decade and said his country was preparing for that eventuality by diversifying its economic base.

Mohammed al-Sabban, lead climate talks negotiator, said the country with the world's largest proven reserves of conventional crude is working to become the top exporter of energy, including alternative forms such as solar power.

Saudi Arabia was among the most vocal opponents of proposals during the climate change talks in Copenhagen. And al-Sabban criticized what he described as efforts by developed nations to adopt policies biased against oil producers through the imposition of taxes on refined petroleum products while offering huge subsidies for coal — a key industry for the United States.

Al-Sabban said the potential that world oil demand had peaked, or would peak soon, was an "alarm that we need to take more seriously" as Saudi charts a course for greater economic diversification.

"We cannot stay put and say 'well, this is something that will happen anyway," al-Sabban said at the Jeddah Economic Forum. The "world cannot wait for us before we are forced to adapt to the reality of lower and lower oil revenues," he added later.

Some experts have argued that demand for oil, the chief export for Saudi Arabia and the vast majority of other Gulf Arab nations, has already peaked. Others say consumption will plateau soon, particularly in developed nations that are pushing for greater reliance on renewable energy sources.

With oil demand only now starting to pick up after it was pummeled by the global recession, some analysts say consumers may have learned to live permanently with a lower level of consumption.

The Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries, as well as other international energy organizations, is forecasting a slight rise in oil demand this year, based mainly on increased consumption in Asia after last year's sharp hit.

Either peak oil scenario presents grave challenges for the Gulf region and OPEC, whose countries rely on oil sales for as much as 90 percent of their budgets.

Al-Sabban, who also serves as the chief economic adviser to Saudi Oil Minister Ali Naimi, said an oil demand peak would be "very serious" for the country.

Saudi has about 264 billion barrels of crude reserves and currently produces about 8 million barrels per day out of its overall output capacity of around 12 million barrels per day.

….

The country recently launched its first solar-powered desalination plant and al-Sabban said oil giant Saudi Aramco was working on a pilot project to inject carbon emissions back into wells to help boost output. The carbon sequestration project, which he said would be operational by 2012, was a sign of Saudi Arabia's commitment to environmentally sound energy development.

The push for cleaner technology is pivotal for the oil rich kingdom.

[Riprion]

I finally login after a long hiatus only to find this thread has risen from the dead.

LOL

[Argat Bogotsch]

The obvious answer is nuclear energy. Sure, it might make me grow a foot on my face, but I think that's a good tradeoff for sustainable energy in my car.

But to be serious, nuclear energy does make sense. The only question is how to dispose of the waste of the cells and how long would THESE resources last us? I can't answer this because my knowledge of nuclear energy isn't that extensive... but I DO know that 3 nuclear power plants power pretty much all of France (if not all of it). If we could put a small cell in our cars we could make them last for a long, long time...

But again I'm a software engineering major... not nuclear energy specialist. Anyone here got this kind of information to verify/debunk my argument?

[Argat Bogotsch]

I think we should privatize all government including police, courts, and military

Also... wat?
I hope this is sarcasm.