An Objectivist arguing with smart idiots.

[Nummers]

Joan Avon > patience is a virtue
Nummers > calling something a virtue doesn't mean its a good thing if the subjective values its based off of are flawed.
Nummers > I'm pretty sure that if most people list a bunch of virtues I can point out some shitty ones.
Joan Avon > i'm pretty sure all of the virtues have been laid out by the church for hundreds of years
Nummers > lol
Nummers > you just went church on me?
Tobiaz > a virtue is by it's definition a positve trait, whether certain charactertraits are a virtue or not has a level of subjectivity and definition
Drahkain > or you could just get some low-grade virtue's on contracts or the SOE store
oolk > o.O
[the conversation wanders]
Tan Thor > alot of russians and the russian way of dealing with problems..fist , meet face
Tobiaz > yeah well right now it's more like paying the strongest pvp-group for his fist to meet face
Nummers > ahhhh, eve, correctly reinforcing stereotypes around the universe
Tan Thor > its not steortyping if its true
Nummers > wrong
Nummers > stereotypes can be right
Nummers > what the hell is wrong with people and their wrong defiinitions of shit
Nummers > thats like 90% of our problems, everyone changes definitions of words
Tobiaz > a stereotype is a oversimplified view of something
Nummers > it is a generalization, and guess what, they can and are frequently more right than wrong
Tan Thor > in my defense i spent alot of time infoing pilots...with russian names, bios with crylic
Nummers > but the people that use that word ALWAYS use it when complaining
Nummers > and bitching
Nummers > so they've taken that word and made it nothing but negative connotation
Nummers > just like people that use the word virtue always assume that its automatically good even when its based on a corrupt or flawed value system
Tobiaz > you're wrong on that nummers
Nummers > no, im not
Nummers > you're just one of the people i have to argue pointless shit against if i ever seek to make a point
Tobiaz > yes, a 'virtue' is a defitnition fo a positive trait
Tobiaz > you're the one that's getting all stressed on it
Nummers > virtue is based off of what someone thinks are good values
Nummers > its completely subjective
Nummers > that was what i said, and you countered by saying somehow it transcends the values it depends upon and is automatically good
Nummers > which is retarded
Tobiaz > no that's when you are classifying charactertraits AS a virtue and that is subjective
Drahken > words, meanings and languages change over time and it's all relative anyways since the whatever it is exists no matter what it is called
Tan Thor > well yah, virtues..religion, leading cause of violent death for 5000 yrs..noones argueing your point
Tobiaz > virtue is a synonym for 'good charactertrait'
Nummers > what is good
Nummers > jesus fuck
Nummers > what kind of circles are we going to talk ourselves into tobiaz
Nummers > think
Tobiaz > what charactertraits ARE virtues, THAT is the whole thing you mean
Drahken > please define the meaning of "Is"
Drahken > hehe
Nummers > you just used a stupid and vague adjective to reaffirm what i just said
Nummers > GOOD = SUBJECTIVE
Tobiaz > correct
Tobiaz > but virtue is a definition hence not subjective
Nummers > god
Tobiaz > it's like saying 'color' is subjective or 'sound'
Nummers > you just said virtue is "good character trait", which means its subjective. which is what i said
Nummers > no
Nummers > im not going down the road of your silly analogies. ill stick with the synonym you chose to use.
Tobiaz > fine by me
Freon Solari > follow the wave! no! follow the particle!
Nummers > but you have nothing to say about defining virtue with two words, one of which is a vague subjective adjective
Tan Thor > follow the top quark
Nummers > anyways this reaffirms my point about reasonable people going batshit crazy when trying to define words or derive their meaning.
Nummers > which sucks
Tekusi > we still dont care
Tobiaz > well i'm a scientific journalist so words and definitions are rather important in my job
Nummers > yea i know, that sucks almost as much
Nummers > but not quite
Tekusi > im glad we had this talk
Nummers > yea well then that depresses me tobiaz
Tobiaz > you get depressed by a lot
Nummers > yea i do
Tobiaz > it's unhealty
Nummers > i doubt it
Tan Thor > seems to me there is plataue you crawl up on and look around and go "oh shit evreything i thought before is dumb" ..getting off that plataue is hard
Nummers > tan, there is a right answer to everything in reality. some people start at the right answer, others take time to get to it, and many or most never get to it.
Nummers > staying on the plateau is fine if thats the right plateau to be on

[Atomic Option]

Objectivist trolling best trolling!

[Nummers]

They started it! I just ran out of room on the copy/paste!

YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE ME!!!!

[Liberty Eternal]

Nummers > tan, there is a right answer to everything in reality. some people start at the right answer, others take time to get to it, and many or most never get to it.
Nummers > staying on the plateau is fine if thats the right plateau to be on

Nice 8)

[Redslay]

There seems to be a point, usually early in the conversation, where it becomes evident that any rational discussion is going to be impossible - that's when I just stop caring and begin to act silly and reference someones mum.

Tan Thor > its not steortyping if its true

- and suddently fried chicken and bad dancing jokes are cool again. This would have been the point for me or maybe

i'm pretty sure all of the virtues have been laid out by the church for hundreds of years

[Nummers]

Yea. I'm much more subtle than you when I reach that point. I call the person retarded and move on. But they weren't the main antagonist in the conversation, so I still spewed my words until Tobiaz eventually reached the point where i told him that he was a stupid scientific journalist

And keep in mind that people can be rational but have incorrectly defined words floating around in their head impressed upon them by those that claim a monopoly on said words. That's a huge problem in discourse, and is 90% of my conversation after I initially just wanted to point out that many people have silly values.

Our misuse of language (and I include myself at times) breaks down rational discourse so easily, and seems to get worse when people sense their philosophy is about to be exposed. And whether consciously or subconsciously, I feel like this is frequently a defense mechanism people use to defend their (in many cases) undefined philosophy.

[Count vonBadguy]

Nummers, I agree with your basic premise (for what it's worth). Whether that is, in fact, that people mistakenly using connotation rather than denotation when they speak or that virtues are not necessarily a positive thing. I have said for years that "honor" is a virtue but, by denotation, there's nobody more honorable than a member of the Nazi SS. I don't want that guy living next door to me though.

Where I disagree with you though is that people NEVER always.

[redhotrebel]

tl;dr

Can you give a synopsis?