A Couple of Thoughts

Tzellurio Noxx · Post by **Tzellurio Noxx** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 12:16 pm

Hi, everyone, I've just registered on these boards, and am intrigued by the amount of Philosophical Thought is put into this corporation; It's Unique.
But anyway, Heres a couple of thoughts, more poems than statements; although when discussing philosophy, nothing is fact:

Could the reality of God
Directly transcend from belief?
Could belief be whispered
nto the minds of men by
Dillusion, Insanity, Sadness
Or Incongruity?
It could be that the very
Existence of God
Is Directly spawned
Created
In the thoughts
Of a Mad Man

If there is a God
Would it know the meaning of Life
If there is a Meaning of Life
Would it be
Holy?
No, for creation is the
Epitome of Contradiction.

Thoughts please.

Emizzon · Post by **Emizzon** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 6:10 pm

O.o

I've always thought the idea of "God" was the lazy person way of explaining the unexplained ages ago.

Example:
Kid: "Daddy? Where does lightning come from?"
Dad dumfouneded.
Dad: "Umm. . .well you see son. . . there's this ummm. . . there's this man. He's a uhh. . . *sees a dog running in a field* and he's a God. And well, when he gets mad, the skies swell with clouds and then he throws ligtning at the people on earth. So you see, if you behave, you won't have ligtning thrown at you."
Kid: "Really?!?! Wow daddy, you're so smart."

Well, that's what I imagined happened centuries ago even before monotheistisc beliefs.

Tzellurio Noxx · Post by **Tzellurio Noxx** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 6:13 pm

Interesting.

Any other thoughts?

GunnyP · Post by **GunnyP** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 6:37 pm

Tzellurio Noxx wrote:Interesting. Any other thoughts?

As a matter of fact, yes.

With the logical side of my brain, I have a tough time explaining God and Jesus. With so many religions and the “human” variations added to them it is hard to know the truth.

Knowing how the Catholic Church became the “holy roman catholic church” for instance… basically a roman emperor adopted the Catholic Church’s beliefs as the official roman religion and made himself its head. Purely political, not a faith based decision. So knowing that it is human nature to twist things to their advantage (to gain a little bit more power… for vanity, greed, or just raw power and self worth). It is hard to totally justify any one religion over the other, or in fact that there is a God after all.

That being said… I do believe.

It is also human nature to believe in something bigger than ourselves. The desire to belong to something that is greater than ourselves. We know that our time here is short. Perhaps that by being a part of something bigger than us we can have an impact and make a difference on others lives. And in that way, have some sort of immortality. Some peace in the fact that when we die, that’s not it. It doesn’t end… that there is something more. I mean, who is happy when a great book ends or a good movie is over… we are always looking for what is next. I hope and believe that there is.

Post by **ForumAdmin** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 3:58 pm

Having spent the majority of my educated life in Catholic schooling (real Catholic schooling guys... yeah, really) I am somewhat torn on this issue.

I personally cannot bring myself to BELIEVE in God. The manipulation of the Bible over the centuries by biased translators (King James...), biased political bodies (Constantine at the Council of Nicea) or political re-writers (the Deuteronomists) prevents me from taking the Bible very seriously. If anything I would consider the Quran a more valid source of Godly wisdom in its un-translated form due to the lack of human tampering; ignoring its human transcription from Heavenly sources.

As such I take a very agnostic approach to it. I sit on the fence on the actual issue. However, this is not to say I don't HOPE that God exists. I honestly do HOPE and I act in my daily life as I would expect any sort of omnipotent, judging entity would wish me to act. Ultimately, if you look at the core values of Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Taoism, Buddhism, Shintoism, Confucianism and other various faiths/philosophies you come out with a very similiar message: be good to others and don't do anything you think is wrong. Every holy book is lined with exceptions to this rule (the wrathful God of the Old Testament, Jihad of the Quran) and so, much like real life, there is a gray area in regards to what's "good." Most philosophies/religions give the OK for killing, for example, in the case of defense. But, killing is bad. These are contradictions that some people can never come to grips with (usually of the insane people nature) but the contradiction nevertheless exists. For most people it's a case of cognitive dissonance.

But anyway, just balance out the good and bad of your life, and if there is a God, yay. Otherwise, you're dead. Congrats, monkeyboy.

Lomex · Post by **Lomex** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 3:19 pm

Actually many of the eastern philosophies do not teach war or killing as wrong. They give guidelines on when its right.

Confucianism teaches that war is neseccary, however it doesn't teach war for wars sake. War is a requirement of life, just like disease, famine, pestulance, theft, cruelty, madness and all the other negative facets of life. With out these would we otherwise truely know peace, love, joy, prospertity, friendship and all the positive aspects of life?

Many of the chinese philosophies preach the ying-yang model of thinking. The key is balance.

Sansake^ · Post by **Sansake^** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 8:57 pm

Modified as necessary to allow for the existence of God, I am an objectivist. Modified as necessary to allow for the objectivist philosophy, I am a Muslim.

As per normal, I wanted to address a couple of different points and have jumped here to do so before jotting down to whom I was responding.

1) Do not confuse religion with God, he doesn't.

2) The thought that killing is sometimes necessary is not limited to eastern religions. Most theologians agree that the original Commandment read, "Thou shalt not murder". Not all killing is murder. "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, judgment is mine" means that if a person is anti-social to the point of extreme counter-productivity for example, you take him out. But you do it because it is necessary to promote the common good, not because you hate him. Doing so with hatred in your heart will get you a "side bar" with God when you die. This is why the death penalty is acceptable in some cases even to some Godly people. It need not be a crisis of faith

Jethro · Post by **Jethro** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:24 pm

Hello Taggartpeople,

not even playing EVE i have but to say i like your style and was led to "deep thoughts". So i just hop in if you allow.

While i have problems with the diversity of religions (too much contradictions weakening their stand overtime) i have none in believing in a higher being. I need this belief to explain to myself why time or space (or the cause for the cause) does exist.

What is stirring my mind for some years is how to understand an omnipotent, allknowing, alltimely entity.

I'd think mankind wouldn't need to ask for such a beings motives as it would be the source for all motives imaginable even that in the future. It would be the source for all matter and mind, even those in parallel universes before their big bangs and after collapsing or whatever we consider the beginning and the end.
For such a being every dimension (space, time, colour, structure, patterns... everything) would be irrelevant due to its omnipotence. Yet it seems at least to us that all these dimensions exist. What would be the reason for us to recognize anything if there is an omnipotent creator who knows and controls causalities timeless times ?

I don't think god plays with us nor is this a test, because he would have the power to have the play/test ended before it started, if he controls time... which i do belief.

So to you who belief as well... what could be the meaning of existance if god is the master of good and bad, past and present, simpleness and complexity ?

... and a more or less similar question: What would be the reason to buy EVE now and begin play as a late newbie ?

Shazam0 · Post by **Shazam0** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 11:48 pm

Play eve for fun. Currently the game is slow, and not as slick as it is promised to become. TTI will help you get into a cruiser and then into a battleship. With loans, and in group operations.

As for god, He lives, and i feel He is closer than most think.

Lonagan Nash · Post by **Lonagan Nash** » Wed Oct 29, 2003 1:28 pm

"So to you who belief as well... what could be the meaning of existance if god is the master of good and bad, past and present, simpleness and complexity ?"

Free will. While He/She/It (whatever) may know the outcome of all possibilities, He allows us to do as we please. Perhaps the best gift but certainly the most damning. Granted, free will may be an illusion. The opposite however is too terrifying to comprehend. That would mean that all attrocities are the will of God.

Shazam0 · Post by **Shazam0** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 7:17 pm

Are you asking a question or are we just delving into DEEP thoughts?

As to our existance here on earth, isnt that a religous question, each religion having thier own explanation. If the motive here is to explore religions thats cool.

This will eventually lead us to a list of what different sects/ religions teach about the nature of God and the purpose of this life.

I have taught in Ghana my chruch's (the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day-Saints) beliefs to the citizens there, and feel more then comfortable sharing my beliefs on the subject. Should i do so?

Jethro · Post by **Jethro** » Thu Oct 30, 2003 8:44 pm

Hmmm.. i am uncomfortable with religions as at least those few i have come to know and those many i could imagine seem right and wrong depending on individual view and changing times.

But somehow i cannot imagine god bound to individuality or time like humans are. So while i believe in eternal god, i consider religions just practical. As such, every religions answer to the question why anything exists does interest me. But i (maybe blasphemically) seek an answer to this question which would be sufficient for god himself.

What would be the reason for an allmighty eternal being to create anything ? I doubt god would do so for fun or for a test, because he'd already know the joke/outcome. My doubts imply that i consider our each (and everythings) existance serious and sanctioned in whatever way it comes to our awareness.
But still it is interesting that human mind seems not to be able to comprehend why everything (even the worst atrocity) is serious and sanctioned. It seems we are unable to perceive gods motives.

Well, of course we are limited... but the imagination that an answer to this question could exist is intriguing alone.

Ah, and Lonagan, apart from the desparation which comes with the dilemma of free will, i feel it more helpful than desparating as well. Still i wonder why ? It must have been that tree of knowledge....

Shazam0 · Post by **Shazam0** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 12:34 am

To put it simply God's ways are not our ways. Who knows what a guy with Super oogle duper powers and ALL knowledge does? Pre-suposing you believe God as the creator, then He created the known Universe and all life therein, not a small feet, and who knows what else he has created!

Because I cannot comprehend all the stuff God is micromanaging, and even just doing (like creating another universe much like an artist paints another painting) I try to see things from a very egotistical point of veiw. If He created humans and is still alive, then in a way he is my creator. As such God can be approached through prayer and spoken with.

Thinking about conversing with the Supreme Being makes me think that He spends a great deal of time micro-managing His human creations. Out of all the life forms on earth it seems we 'need' His help most often, at least in my self-centerd view of the world I think i need Gods' help more then say a house cat.

And why wouldnt God want to deal with his little peons (us humans)? Dont parents love taking care of thier infant? I'm not a parent and i cant see myself ever dotting over a slobbering not really coherent 3 month old, yet i've seen my brother do just that. Just as I am not able to see why parents enjoy interacting with an infant so much, we may not be able to see why God interacts with us so much.

Dang to have ultimate power over everything I come incontact with! 8) There is a reason I'm not god... I'd quickly begin to suffer from too much stimulation.

FYI - I think free will is a good thing.

Jethro · Post by **Jethro** » Fri Oct 31, 2003 11:06 am

I'd argue that our ways must be his ways because as the creator he must be the source of everything.
And although i (limited as i am) still cannot understand his motives for creation it feels good that anything that exists must be ok in whatever ways it comes to awareness. So even if free will forces me to make a choice, i need not to desperate. *sighs reliefed*

If there would be no eternal god who created everything there would surely be reason for desperation. Not only wouldn't we know why there is existance, we would have to doubt, maybe even deny it.

Having free will, i choose to have a basement without knowing why instead of becoming lost.

Lomex · Post by **Lomex** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 9:48 am

The origins of 'God', that is to say 'gods' came from the Sumerians, the first true civilisation.

They invented many things, water travel, writing, pottery, agriculture etc...
They are accredited with many of the worlds most basic yet profound inventions. They accredit their knowledge to their 'gods', flesh and blood beings who are not native to this sphere (yes they knew the earth was round way before the greeks proved it).
In fact they know a great many things about the heavens that weren't proved till much later. They knew how many planets there were, the exact length of time it takes for the heavens to rotate fully (its around 25 thousand years).
Many of the things they knew we couldn't prove until late 1700 early 1900's when telescopes became accurate enough to plot movement.

Now these 'gods' of their's are flesh and blood as I've said. They are the original pantheon to which all other godly pantheons exist (prior to the mono-theistic religions).

Now if this first civilisation says that the gods are in fact beings of some kind (extrodinarily long lived, highly advanced - they did fly around after all) why now do we believe in an allmighty divine presense.

There are numerous instances in the Bible that are directly stolen from sumerian history. Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed, and for 'devient' ways. The Sumerians record that the 'devient' ways were in fact experiements carried out by one of two brothers (can't remember which way round sorry) Enli and Enki. The cities were atomized (turned into a pillar of salt is a nice way of putting it.) along with the experiments. The original location, the dead sea, is still radioactive today.

So why now do we worship single gods. And why are many of them now benevolent despite the older 'historical' records. The old testement is full of acts of divine aggression, yet the new is a lot more loving. Is it simply that people didn't like an angry god and due to public pressure the new testement was made to highlight a loving god?
If so then 'God' is so much more a production of mans inability to accept responsibility for their own actions rather than a divine presence.

BioNeb · Post by **BioNeb** » Sun Feb 15, 2004 2:44 am

why make it long if it can be shroter?

God is a DJ

- My 1st theory

No serious, 'God' doesn't exist. Besides why do I talk about 'God' if i tell ya all he doesn't exist, *gee*

It's all crap talk about some dude, named 'Jesus', that was high on some type of drug that thought he could fool some people. The day after he probably had some visitors asking about his weird stories, and he remembered something about em, so he went on talking crap.

- 2nd and last theory (cuz i'm gitting sick already)

Well Jesus was some dude, mentally ill, that thought he was special (many figures have acted like this in the past, returns every generation). So he started some sort of 'sect' (dunno if it's spelled right, for the dutch people: "sekte"). He was successful of getting followers. Ya also have those kind of groups operating these days. Besides people were easier to fool in the past than others are now.

And all those stories about Jesus getting nailed (to a cross), ffs this might have been true. He got what he deserved! When ya get drunk here and try to start some 'sect' ya end up in jail, so in those days when ya got drunk and told weird stories some people wanted that person in jail, but jail wasn't good enough, they all hated his craptalk and wanted him nailed to a cross.

Well those are my theories, pick one if ya like!

'God' bless America and no place else, man don't make me laugh! (no offence americans, just pointing the stupidity that follow from faith in 'God', but i do luv the "Bruce Almighty" movie)

Well so far my atheïsm

Cutani Phlegg · Post by **Cutani Phlegg** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 6:48 am

I believe in determination.
This fits in the concept of free will, cause my believe is only the cornerstones of mens existance are set, u can still choose the color of your new car by yourself.

But your time of death is set by the time of your birth, you can go through anything and survive if your time has not come.

Next question is which power weaves the pattern of existence? God, Karma, the Norns? I dont know.

Golda · Post by **Golda** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:13 pm

I really like this thread! Seems no one is expressing being uncomfortable talking about God--very mature!

Most ppl just throw up their defensive statement and run the other way, but not this group.

Take it or leave it, just thought I'd add my deep thoughts here: About religion, it's a tragedy that religion has gotten in the way so much thru history and even today's religions, in the way of knowing more about God (or even the idea of God). I second the motion of trying to seperate religion and God, as religion is certainly a man-made attempt at pleasing God. These attempts have lead to history's most shameful atrocities. IMHO, it's not fair to assign blame to God for mankind's attempts at anything.

The answer to the question "Is there a God?" must be founded on one's faith--either you believe there is or you do not. Your belief, however, does not affect God's existence. Either he really does exist or he really does not. I do believe there is a God, and despite all the scientific evidence supporting that, and working to sway my opinion, I still have to believe it. If I am confronted with the scientific evidence of the probability that God exists versus any other idea, for example the idea that the Universe came into being on its own, a hydrogen atom appearing out of nowhere, but I refuse to believe the probable, then for me, God does not exist, and my faith sustains that idea for me. Faith does not need scientific evidence to tell us whether or not there is a God. Our believing is of our own accord, our own responsibility, generated by our own heart, perhaps assisted by our minds. Why else can anyone believe in something they cannot see unless faith comes first from the heart?

So asking a faith-answered question and asking for some empirical evidence answers might be the road that leads one to frustration.

The real trick in dealing with yourself successfully in life is not to slip into denial when confronted with the fact that what you might currently believe is wrong, or at least can be improved upon.

The real trick in dealing with your faith about God is this: avoiding a guilt-based response to the issue, thinking that if God exists, then I am in real trouble because of all the sins (mistakes) I've made in my life. So because I could be in real trouble if God exists, I'll just change what I believe to accomodate my guilt, and say that there is no God.

Good News: If there is a God, then certainly there is hope for human redemption as well.

Sansake^ · Post by **Sansake^** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:57 pm

Golda wrote:The real trick in dealing with your faith about God is this: avoiding a guilt-based response to the issue, thinking that if God exists, then I am in real trouble because of all the sins (mistakes) I've made in my life. So because I could be in real trouble if God exists, I'll just change what I believe to accomodate my guilt, and say that there is no God.

I agree with what Golda has said, especially this last paragraph. Never underestimate your powers of denial and rationalization.

<Sansake puts on his really, really, BIG cynic's hat> If you see logic in Golda's last paragraph and are willing to conceed that it may apply to you, might I suggest a half-step toward God, become a Christian. This way, you can continue to blunder along making these "mistakes" and, as long as you realize that you're doing it and seek forgiveness, it will be as if you'd never done anything wrong at all.

When/if you can substitute shame for guilt, you will have arrived. There is no forgiveness for shame, it does not wash off, it forces accountability. Shame gives you pause to seriously consider the "right or wrong" of a thing BEFORE you actually do it.